Trying to Find Church to Attend (part 2)
Trying to attend another Assembly of God church group
It was a Wednesday night and I decided to visit another Assembly of God church group. That night there were 150-200 people in congregation and pastor was speaking to the group.
Pastor started speaking about Jimmy Swaggart and the scandal where Swaggart was found with a prostitute.
Pastor said: "We should pray for brother Swaggart."
In a very soft voice, I said: "He (Swaggart) should be put out of the church."
The woman sitting in front of me apparently heard what I said though it was very soft. She turned and glared at me.
What the apostle Paul said to do when a "brother" is a fornicator ...
I Cor. 5 ...1It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife. 2And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
Paul didn't say to pray for such a "brother" ... nor did Paul say for us to counsel such.
Paul said: put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
A few weeks after Swaggart cried on TV and said he had sinned and asked for forgiveness, he was caught with another prostitute.
This time when the policeman stopped him with the prostitute in the car, Swaggart said: "It's flat out none of your business." (Report from Wikipedia Internet Encyclopedia)
I didn't return to that Assembly of God church again.
Following friends to church
After I was born again, someone came to me and told me I had to attend church.
I replied: "I do?"
I was about 37 at the time I was born again and everyone in churches was more experienced than I was so I went to the church this friend was attending.
The pastor was doing a series of "lectures" against speaking in tongues and pastor was saying tongues were of the devil.
I really didn't care anything about the subject of speaking in tongues one way or another. I was bored when I went to these services but I went to them. I don't remember anything about them except that church leadership was against speaking in tongues.
At one point while attending this church I saw the following scripture:
James 5 ... 14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
I had gotten sick so I called the church office and told them I was sick and I needed to meet with the elders of the church as per James 5 and have them pray over me and anoint me with oil. There was dead silence on the other end of the line. Later the church secretary called me and told me she had passed my request on to the leadership of the church and she said in about 2 weeks the elders were going to have a meeting and they would discuss my case. I never heard from them again. A few days after calling them, I got well. God raised me up.
Then one day I was reading the Bible. I saw the following concerning what we are to do when we gather as the church.
Paul said: I Cor. 14 ... 39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. 40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
I really didn't care a hoot about tongues at that time one way or another ... But I very much cared about what the Bible said.
Here I was attending a church which taught tongues were of the devil and Paul was saying in the Bible forbid not to speak with tongues.
I certainly wasn't going to attend a church where they taught something opposite to the Bible so I left that church immediately and never went back.
One day, I was riding in a car with my best friend who attended that church and told me I had to attend a church. I said to Donna, "OH by the way ... did you know Paul said "forbid not to speak with tongues" ?
Donna replied: "What?"
I had a small Bible of NT which I kept in my purse. Donna pulled the car to the side of the road and said: "Let me see that ..."
I showed it to her. I was using the King James Version of the Bible.
Donna said: "Let's go to my house and look it up in other translations of the Bible." (she had several different translations at her house)
It was the same in every translation of the Bible
I said: "I'm not going to that church anymore."
Donna said she wasn't either.
I think her husband might have been a little upset but she stopped going to that church that taught against tongues.
After that, I followed another friend to Beverly Hills Baptist church. (This friend was considered by our prayer group to be very spiritual.) That church was a "charismatic" Baptist church. I don't recall anyone speaking in tongues but they didn't speak against it. It was a very big church ... over 3000 members ...
At one point, I went to visit with the pastor. I can't recall exactly what I asked him but I do recall his shocked reply: He said: "You'd have to be a spiritual giant to do that. (to call on God and hear from God and follow the Spirit of God)" (I was doing "that" all the time, about like breathing in an out. It seemed automatic to me.)
I don't recall anything else about that church.
After that my friend who seemed spiritual to everyone in the prayer group, switched to a faith movement church called Word of Faith. Robert Tilton was the pastor. This church met in an old warehouse. On a good day, we had approximately 200 people … It grew quickly to over 8,000 and a new expensive building. Bob was a very good fund raiser and salesman.
I Tim. 6 … 3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
(If anyone thinks “gain”, larger numbers of people, and such, is a sign of “godliness” withdraw from that person)
Bob was kind of a salesman type person ... very handsome ... wonderful "fun" personality ... pretty country type ...(not the type of person I was used to) ...
During the services Bob often spoke a doctrine concerning prosperity and how we could gain prosperity. I felt it didn't pertain to me but he was speaking some scripture during his sermons so I decided I could copy down the scripture and study those when I got home.
I never missed a service. I went Sunday morning, Sunday evening, Wednesday evenings, and to all special services. They had many "special" services with visiting speakers. I don't remember anything any of these special speakers said. But I did continue to copy scriptures they quoted and study those scriptures.
During that time, God gave me that poison gas dream.
Then one Wednesday night, Bob was speaking as usual and I looked at the man sitting next to me and he looked like a corpse. I looked about the room and the other people looked like corpses. (They looked exactly like the dead people in that poison gas dream.)
I got up and went to rest room and began talking to God. I said to God: "I think you are telling me to leave this church group. I'm going to drive away. But if You want me to return, I'll come back."
After I left God began showing me some of the doctrine professed by that faith movement.
First God showed me the following. They taught that all good is from God and all bad is from the devil. Sounds right.
But then God took me to the following scripture: Jesus was hanging on a cross. Jesus gave up the ghost. After that there was an earthquake: Mt 27 ... 54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
Earthquakes destroy property. Earthquakes are "bad" ... right? But doesn't God send earthquakes ... and hail ... and wind ... and tornadoes ...
Didn't the centurion and they that were watching Jesus turn to God after they saw the earthquake. That is what it seems to say in Mt. 27.
So how can the earthquake be bad?
With that, God began unraveling the faith movement doctrine and I came to see the teaching was basically that all good is from God and all bad is from devil and we as believers have authority over the devil. First there is the assumption that we as human can tell what is good and what is bad.
Next, concerning having authority over such things as storms, (which was being taught at the Faith Movement church that I attended) I began to wonder how it was that a storm could hit when all these big faith movement people had authority over such. And if their faith is so great, why didn't they stop it?
Unknown to me at the time, my "spiritual" friend that I had followed to that faith movement church had left. And our Sunday school teacher at that church, Don Gelino, had left.
At one point I spoke with Don. I said: "I didn't know I was different from them... I always thought I was like them." (Except I didn't care for that prosperity message and it never seemed to pertain to me.)
Don replied: "Joan ... you were never like them."
I said: "I wasn't?"
My "spiritual friend" said she was worse off when she left that church than she was when she came to it.
During the time I was attending that faith movement church I had another bit of insight.
We had a very bad ice storm in Dallas. I couldn't get to church. So I walked to Highland Park Methodist Church which was a little over a block from my apartment.
As I walked there, I noticed the cars that obviously belonged to the people that attended Highland Park Methodist Church.
There were numerous expensive cars... Mercedes, BMW, Cadillacs ... I thought, "How can this be?" Those people don't know anything about God, yet they were obviously so rich. While many of the faith movement people seemed to be so poor.
The prosperity message likely appealed to poorer people since there was a prospect of becoming rich in material goods. (fulfilling covetousness) This all seemed very strange to me.
In the meantime, in my own life, I found more and more money coming to me and more things around me than I've ever had ... but I was not trying to get more money or things and I wasn't applying the faith movement message on prosperity, yet I kept prospering.
But what I was doing ever since being born were the following scriptures ...
Psalm 1 ... 1Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in HIS law doth he meditate day and night.
3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
Joshua 1:8 ... This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.
Along the way, Don had noticed this. He said they talked about faith but the one he thought who really had faith and lived it was me.
All I was doing was believing the Bible, keeping the Word of God before me day and night, doing what the scripture brought to my mind said to do ... and continuing to do this.
Several months before I had left Word of Faith, God had made it clear to me that I was called and set in the body of Christ as apostle/prophet.
Eph. 4 ... After Jesus arose, HE gave gifts to the NT church … 11 And HE (Jesus) gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
God taught me that apostles in NT church have special anointing to deal with scriptures and church doctrine.
… prophets in NT church carry message of correction to the church and to individuals in the church …
If antichrist can remove apostles and prophets it sets the stage for the man of lawlessness, antichrist, to move into the church through the heart of men …
January 10, 1980, in the night, what I believed to be an angel of God spoke three words to me. This was as I was sleeping and the voice was like a trumpet in my ear, waking me, with these words:: "Hartford, Seattle, KWJS" ... and I ended up doing exhortations on a radio broadcast (KWJS) 5 days a week/30 min. per day. And I had a great many people seeking me out as a result of those teachings on radio.
God had given me a gift of exhortation (Rom. 12:8) for the church and had taught me not to plan out anything but rather just to turn on the recorder and speak what I heard from HIM and broadcast that. And that is what I did and that is what I still do when I write (or speak). I just write those things brought to my mind believing it is Holy Spirit reminding me since that is one of things Holy Spirit does. (Jn. 14:26) I never plan anything ahead of time. I do read Bible and try to meditate on that spoken to me by the Holy Spirit. Then whatever God draws out of me I speak and write. It is very easy and very simple.
(And a few days after I was born again I was transported into heaven twice as I slept in the night and both times the same thing happened. I knew I was with God, with Christ, and with the Holy Spirit. I was "merged " into the body of Jesus ... made one with the Word of God ... as God and the Holy Spirit witnessed. It was wonderful! and this was probably a part of preparing me for the work of the ministry to which I was called by God.)
So I followed friends to church and to a prayer group but God never told me to go to any church or prayer group. And after God brought me out of Word of Faith I expected God to put me into another group and He did not. Yet the church was my life. I was always there after I was born again until I was taken out by God.
Today I understand that we are the church.
I also understand we cannot stay at a church group where scriptures are misused. We simply have to find a few people who want to build their lives on the Word of God and are willing to correct themselves by the Word of God and we gather with these people in spirit and in truth.
Jesus says ...
Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
(We might just "gather" by telephone with another believer and Jesus would be there with us. I've had many things of God revealed by God as I have been speaking by phone with another member of the body of Christ.)
The apostle Paul said …
II Tim. 3 … This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured:but out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
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